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A general trend in nuisances...

Whilst it is very nice to be helpful, to offer practical assistance or information or opinion that might assist me in making decisions (there are many ways to be helpful) it is often the case that the help offered may not actually be helpful, for a variety of reasons. Naturally this help has been offered out of kindness and generosity and should be politely refused, not rudely rejected. This is not the nuisance.

The nuisance is when the help-offerer goes on to insist that you accept their help, follow their advice, etc. even after I have politely declined and offered an explanation.

This is a nuisance (and worse than a nuisance) at a wide range of levels - from the small-time barely-a-flicker-of-irritation right up to serious assaults. Naturally the more serious the violation the more annoyed I am about it; but I am also generally-annoyed about the prevelance of this idea that my help/advice/etc is SO WONDERFUL AND AMAZING that OBVIOUSLY you want to follow it.

At the most trivial end - my bike lights have no battery, they do not need to be turned off, I deliberately leave them on at all times because I'm a lazy wottsit. So, naturally my life includes a large number of people telling me I have done so; or even turning them off while I'm not there. I strive to remember that these people are generous helpful people who I can't reasonably expect to know anything about how my lights work.

At the most serious end - the law in this country provides for detaining and forcibly medicating people if the relevant someone decides that that's a good idea. Now, I am absolutely all for providing absolutely everyone with all the medical treatments that they want; and I am on-balance in favour of detaining people who have committed crimes in part in order to protect others from the possibility that they will commit more crimes; I'm certainly in favor of offering people who have committed crimes the option of receiving medical treatment whilst detained; I'm just not in favour of people being forcibly medicated against their will.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-11-02 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
I include all sorts of medical procedures; I wouldn't make a *list* because I don't know what they all are.

I don't include emergency life-saving procedures carried out on unconscious patients; since there is in that case no opportunity to discover whether they consent or not. (Although I would usually expect medics to check for things like bracelets or tattoos with important medical information).

(no subject)

Date: 2012-11-02 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beckyc.livejournal.com
*Nods* - I noticed that most of the discussions were tending towards the assumption of forced medication being drugs, and wondered if they had ever encountered forced medical procedures.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-11-02 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Well, the horror scenarios in my mind are mostly out of things like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But I'm also aware of a lot of really heinous shit done to women who are having babies. I'm sure there's a whole lot of other scenarios that haven't even occurred to me.

Also I know about things like China forcing women to have abortions - which I think is VERY WRONG but I don't think people like that are making the error of supposing that they are "doing what you want, really"; I think they've decided that some other goal is more important than what the individual wants and/or are vile sadists.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-11-02 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sidheag.livejournal.com
Hmm. Why is it worse to medicate someone who doesn't consent when, to the best of your knowledge and belief this is because they are psychotic and you reasonably believe they would consent otherwise, than to medicate someone who doesn't consent because they are unconscious, and you reasonably believe they would consent otherwise?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-11-02 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Mostly because for an unconscious A&E case you have a really limited amount of time to find out "what would this person actually want"; so its good to have a rigid rule that you do your very best to save them unless they have a DNR tattoo or other really very obvious indications they don't want help. So there's a much bigger time pressure.

Also because I think there really is a difference between someone standing there shouting "NO" at you; and someone who can't communicate at all. I don't believe that psychotic patients are utterly incapable of reasonable communication.

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